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| T O P I C R E V I E W | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 02 Jul 2007 : 20:34:54
Jesus Joshua 24:15 Newsletter - June 2007
www.jesusjoshua2415.com
The Band:
Bobby Shepherd: Drums
Steve Pettit: Lead Vocals
Jay Woody: Bass
Will Rauser: Guitars
The Crew:
Mark Bussell: Webmaster, Computer Tech
Jim Bishop: Promotion, PR
Tammy Woody: Video Production, Wardrobe
Juli Rauser: Booking
George Sparks: Roadie
Editor's Lead
Comfort With Tyranny
Welcome to the July installment of the Jesus Joshua 24:15 Newsletter.And since it is July, and those of our readers that reside in the United States (including myself) will be celebrating Independence Day on the 4th of July. And, as our thoughts are in that direction, I would like to offer some thoughts on this, the most hallowed of Holidays in the United States.
As as I have mentioned in previous Newsletters, I like to listen to a lot of radio talk shows. On one particular installment, of one particular talk show, the issue of the War in Iraq was on deck. Now before I proceed any further, I must attempt to clarify something: I am not trying to sway anyone's opinion pro or con on the Iraq War. I am not trying to be an apologist for any particular Administration. I am an apologist, but that is not my intent for this article. So, please do not feel threatened or put upon by my opinions. This article is an editorial, and thus, I will probably veer into political ideology and opinion. But the intent of this article, ideology notwithstanding, is to make a spiritual point regarding what I perceive to be a deep spiritual problem with human beings in general. So if you can wade through my obvious partisanship, you will be able to understand my main point.
As the discussion about the reasons for why the Iraqi Conflict is appearing to not quite go as planned progressed, the Radio Host made the comment that, "The Iraqis have not stepped up to the plate. They were under the brutal tyranny of Saddam Hussein, and we (the US) liberated those people, gave them an opportunity to live free, and they have now chosen to live with another kind of tyranny. The tyranny of the Muslim Clerics, and the leaders of Al-Queda. I guess the Iraqi's are comfortable with tyranny."
A slight change of gears is in order.
Just recently, I had a dear friend stay with me at my house, who had just come back from a month leave in his home state. He had been home from the battlefields of Iraq, where he literally suffered the wounds of war. He stayed with me for about 4 days, on his way to his new duty station. During his stay with me, I asked him some very deep questions about the conflict in which he had been personally engaged. Now I must tell you that I have known this young man for about 13 years, and I saw a changed man. Battle will do that. But, change not withsatnding, I still saw the man of deep conviction and integrity that I have always known.
At any rate, he was very frank with me in his answers. I asked my friend, since he had first hand knowledge and experience of the events going on in that country, "Did the US do the right thing there in Iraq?" His answer only confirmed my suspicions. My friend told me, "Will, I do believe that we did the just and noble thing. But the Iraqi people, who first welcomed and congratulated us, are now the same people trying to kill us. The Iraqi people celebrate their freedom, then the Muslim Clerics preach hate, and turn these same people into our enemies, by threatening to kill their families, and torture the men. They face just as much tyranny as they did under Saddam." And then my friend said this: "They seem to be comfortable with tyranny."
I must underscore that my friend had never heard the comment made by the talk show host. However, I found that quite ironic that my friend would choose the very phrase that our famed radio host used.
Now, again, allow me to remind you that this article is not meant to stir up a debate over the nobility or the lack of nobility of the War in Iraq. I am trying to get you to see an interesting pattern. As such, my next few paragraphs are somewhat of a delineation of the current subject. However, I shall try to connect the thoughts together.
I have a dear friend (one who reads this newsletter) who wrote me with an interesting question, some months back.
This was long before I heard the comments made by the Radio Jock, or the return of my friend from Iraq. But at any rate, the question he posed to me was:
quote:
"I think it was CS Lewis that told a story about watching kids play with mud pies. He said they were completely happy playing with the mud, because they'd never known a real pie. What I don't understand is, if someone tells them about the real pie, or better still, they see someone eating a real pie, how can they still be happy with what they have?"
(And, Editor's note: The one who wrote me that question did so in private, so I am using some unrequested discretion. My friend knows who he is and he can email me if he thinks I stepped out of line. Ordinarily, I would never take such measures as privacy is paramount with me, but I think he will understand).
I have pondered that question deeply since my friend posed it to me. And I believe my answer to him falls within the parameters of this article. I believe that people are comfortable with tyranny. Whether it is the tyranny of a dictator, or the tyranny of sin, there comes a point in everyone's lives where we have to decide whether or not we are willing to live with tyranny. The people who want to keep the "mud pie" are simply comfortable with the mud pie. The mud pie is what they've always had, and they are afraid that they will either like the "real pie", or have to give up what they've always known. Thus, they are comfortable with the "tyranny" of the "mud pie." The mud pie has no nutritional value, it cannot satisfy, nor does it taste particularly good. It may even make you sick. But you're comfortable with it, and thus you won't give it up.
The birth of the United States was consummated by the reaction to tyranny. Believe me, there were those in that age who said that it was better to live with tyranny, than to face the discomfort and sacrifice for freedom.
But, if the Founders of this great Republic had listened to the naysayers, to those comfortable living with tyranny, this nation would have never been born.
I would like to interject what Scripture has to say about freedom. Jesus says, in John 8:31-32:
quote:
To the Jews who had believed Him, Jesus said, "If you hold to My teaching, you are really My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
By itself, that is a powerful verse. But I believe the following verses is where the power of this quote becomes so effective. John 8:33-36 says:
quote:
They (the Jews---Ed) answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."
To tie all of this together, I submit that people can become comfortable with tyranny. Personally, whether we're speaking of the politics of warfare or the issues of the human spirit, this kind of comfort is incredibly dangerous. Jesus is essentially asking if the people are comfortable with the tyranny of sin.
I find it ironic that the Jews who believed Jesus stated flatly that as descendants of Abraham, they have never been slaves of anyone. I guess they forgot that little 430 year ordeal in Egypt; or that the Jewish state was under the thumb of the Romans during this particular event. I guess they had forgotten exile to Babylon, and Persia.
And it is to that forgetfulness that I really address this issue. Many of us have become so comfortable with tyranny, when the dictator (i.e. "Satan") comes around, even when he abuses us, tortures us, maligns us, accuses us, and eventually leaves us for dead, we humans continue to be comfortable in his tyrannical grip. When Jesus comes along to free us we are happy for a time until the "dictator" comes around and tells us all of these things that aren't true, and we listen to him because we're comfortable with the tyranny of sin.
Are we like the Jewish believers, so comfortable with tyranny that we will even deny that we were ever really slaves? Are we so comfortable with the tyranny of sin that we don't catch Jesus' words in John 8:32: "If you hold to My teaching..."?
Are we holding to the teachings of Christ, or are we allowing the ultimate tyrannical dictator to convince us to be comfortable with his regime? Just like in Iraq, real freedom eludes those who would rather live comfortably with tyranny.
News and Events
- This month we celebrate the birth of our esteemed and talented Bass player, C. Jay Woody! He will be turning a spry 34 years old on July 5th! Happy Birthday, Jayster!
- Jesus Joshua 24:15 will be playing in Massilon, Ohio, on July 14th. The band will be opening for Broken 3418, at the "Light CBAM". This show is listed on the front page of the Jesus Joshua 24:15 website, so you can check that out for specific location and times.
- Speaking of shows, Jesus Joshua 24:15, as announced last month, played a show at Fayetteville Christian Church, located, naturally, in Fayetteville, NC. We played after the wonderful group "Behind The Stone" warmed up the audience with their unique brand of Praise and Worship. A great time was had by all, and we look forward to playing with them again, and playing at FFC again!
- Don't forget, July 4th is Independence Day! Please enjoy yourselves, don't drink and drive, and remember why we celebrate!
Guitar Points from Will
Again, More Rhythm Guitar
Some of you may be asking yourselves why I am spending a lot of time on this subject. Well, to quote Jake E. Lee (former Ozzy Osbourne guitarist) "Rhythm guitar is about 95% of your set." I mean, if you're going to spend that much time playing rhythm guitar, you should at least learn how to make it exciting.
Many guitar articles stress the value of lead playing. And lead playing is important. However, without rhythm there is no song! Lead playing without a good song is just useless.
However, there are two myths that I would like to dispose of. First, "Rhythm is boring." I am afraid that you would have to consult the mighty James Hetfield from Metallica, or Edward Van Halen, and I am reasonably sure they would disagree. Surely, Edward is a magnificent soloist, but many of his rhythms are tight, creative, interesting, and very difficult to play. Spending time with the rhythm playing of either of those players would surely increase your rhythm chops AND your songwriting chops.
The second myth, which is tied to the first is, "All you really need to play rhythm is to know just a couple of chords." Baloney! It's knowing what to do with those chords. Much rock and even metal music utilizes very simple chord structures (i.e. the famous "I-IV-V" progression). But even when the same key and chord progressions are used by two different artists, you will have two totally different results.
I know I keep referring to Mr. EVH, but he was responsible for grabbing my interest in the guitar in the first place. Edward's music is mainly based on just a few chords (rarely more than 4 or 5). However, unless you analyze it, you really cannot tell that there are only 4 or 5 chords in the song, because Edward plays around with the voicings, the way the chords progress into each other, and how he plays them dynamically.
Let's take a typical "I-IV-V", progression, in the Key of "A", and "Van Halenize" it;
Ex.1a
(I) (IV)(V)
A5 D5 E5
E|------------------|
B|-----3------------|
G|-2---2------------|
D|-2---0---2--------|
A|-0-------2--------|
E|---------0--------|
Okay, now that's pretty straight forward. We are just going to use power chords right now, because we haven't dived into more theory. Now, mind you, power chords are not necessarily boring.
But I am reasonably sure that in lesser hands, these three chords will soon run out of gas. Now, let's look at a Van Halen-like take on these chords to produce an interesting rhythm part. Let's add some interesting dynamic twists:
Ex. 1b
A5 A5(7) D5 (E5)
x x x |-H-| P.H.
E|------------------------|
B|-------------3----------|
G|-2-----0-----2------0---|
D|-2-----2-----0----2-----|
A|-0-0-0-0---3---0-2------|
E|----------------------3-|
[Just for clarity, an "x" means to Palm mute the note (a chunk-sound), an "H" means to "Hammer" (play a note without picking it) and a "P.H." means "Pinch Harmonic" (using the side of the thumb, to graze the string, after you pick it, to produce an artificial harmonic).]
Now, in the above example, I still use the same 3 chords (A5, D5,& E5), but now I am adding some filler in between the chords - kind of like a piano player might do (In fact, Van Halen started his musical training as a piano player ... go figure).
Notice in the above example that I included a chord that kind of deviates from the initial pattern. I used an "A5(7)", which is only there to clarify the harmony, because when I go to the open "G" string, while playing the low A and E notes, you create an implied "A7' or an implied "Am7" chord. The fact that there is no 3rd interval present in that chord keeps the chord a little ambiguous. But understanding the theory behind it is not really necessary for you to play the examples. Use your ear, and if it doesn't sound good, try playing a different note. The important thing is that you're trying to make your rhythm playing sound alive and grooving.
Let's try a different approach. Let's use the same 3 chords, but let's start on a different chord in the series.
Ex. 2a
E5 A5 D5 E5 D5
|--sl.--|
E|-----------------------|
B|--------------3--5--3--|
G|---------2----2--4--2--|
D|-2-------2----0--------|
A|-2-------0-------------|
E|-0-0-0-3---3-0---------|
(Note: "Sl." means to "slide".)
Ex. 2b
E5 E5 D5 A5 D5 E5
x x x
E|----------------------|
B|----------------------|
G|-9---9-------------9--|
D|-9---7---7--7--7---9--|
A|-7---7---5--7--5---7--|
E|---0---0---------0----|
Bear in mind, I am not trying to make my examples rhythmically accurate. My results may differ from yours. But that is entirely the point. I am trying to get you to spawn your own creativity.
Fingerings, precise licks, and dynamics are subjective, as I am making these examples up as I go. Put your personal mark on these examples, and force them to conform to your personal sound, and you will have developed something unique.
Let's look at one final example, and let's "Metallica-ize" it a little.
E5 x x x x x x x x
E|----------------------|
B|----------------------|
G|----------------------|
D|-2--------------------|
A|-2--------------------|
E|-0---0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0--|
Bb5 Bb5 D5 A5
E5 x x x Bb5 x x x
E|-------------------------|
B|-------------------------|
G|-3---3-------7-3-2-------|
D|-3-2-3-------7-3-2-------|
A|-1-2-1-------5-1-0-------|
E|---0---0-0-0-------0-0-0-|
I have added an extra chord in this mix (one that is favored by thrash, heavy metal, and various other metal styles); The chord? The Bb5, or the "Flat 5th interval" Make sure to use some seriously heavy palm muting throughout. These kinds of dynamics add to the heaviness of these 4 chords. Definitely creates a different vibe.
Try these ideas with other 3-chord combinations. You might find your voice within the simplicity of 3 chords.
Lead Techniques from Will
Last month, we looked at the easy to remember E minor Pentatonic "box" shape. But we looked at the "box" shape down at the lowest part of the neck of the guitar.
This month, we need to look at the same "box" pattern, but an octave above. It is the same shape, but we perform it starting on the 12th fret, rather than the open strings.
Ex.1
E|-------------------------|
B|-------------------------|
G|-------------------12-14-|
D|-------------12-14-------|
A|-------12-14-------------|
E|-12-15-------------------|
E|-------12-15-12----------|
B|-12-15----------15-12----|
G|----------------------14-|
D|-------------------------|
A|-------------------------|
E|-------------------------|
E|-----------------------|
B|-----------------------|
G|-12--------------------|
D|----14-12--------------|
A|----------14-12--------|
E|----------------15-12--|
Now, let's make it a little more musical by playing these patterns a little less "scalar".
Ex.2
E|-12-15-12----------------|
B|----------15-12----12-15-|
G|----------------14-------|
D|-------------------------|
A|-------------------------|
E|-------------------------|
E|-------------------------|
B|-------------------------|
G|-------------------------|
D|----------12-------14-12-|
A|-14-12-------14-12-------|
E|-------15----------------|
E|-------------------------|
B|-------------------------|
G|-12-14-12----12-14-12----|
D|----------14-------------|
A|----------------------14-|
E|-------------------------|
I have not set up any fingerings or any type of picking patterns, because I think lead is largely a personal expression. We will be looking at different types of picking patterns and stylistic ornaments, but for right now try getting these patterns under your fingers. Remember, this is to be played over any E-minor chord (Em, Em7, Em9) or, for a bluesier flavor, try the scale over any E dominant harmony (E7,E9,E13, or even E7sus4).
A Final Thought
A I was driving to run an errand, I passed by a church with this on their front sign: "The hanging flag represents your freedom."
I am sure that this particular congregation was trying to draw a point about the symbols of freedom. Well, I could add to that; "The hanging Savior represents your freedom."
Obviously, Jesus is no longer in the grave; He is risen. But, just as the flag of the United States represents those who have gone before us to ensure our freedom and posterity, the Cross represents what Christ went before us to do - to pay a price that we could not pay.
There's a saying that "Freedom isn't free." Freedom is bought by the blood and sacrifice of others. You know what? Your freedom from sin was not free. It is a gift to you and me precisely because we do not have the resources to pay the price of it.
However, Jesus could and did. And just as we honor Old Glory, a symbol of national freedom, and personal liberty, we must honor and remember that Jesus went before us, to pay a price, so that you and I could live free from the tyranny of sin.
Freedom is not without it's costs. Neither was the process of liberating us from our sins. Our liberation cost God everything. Perhaps we would do well to remember that.
| | 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 29 Jul 2007 : 10:29:38
quote:
I been spendin' a whole 2 hours a week in rehab (church) and I still ain't makin no progress...
You sound like Lindsay Lohan......'cept she hasn't spent any time in church.... | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 28 Jul 2007 : 23:00:53
I been spendin' a whole 2 hours a week in rehab (church) and I still ain't makin no progress...
 sarcasm
intended | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 28 Jul 2007 : 22:56:45
I hope we're not having heroin laced oreos for dessert!
I'm tryin' to quit those things.
| | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 21 Jul 2007 : 02:49:58
quote:
I'll fire up the grill
And be sure to bring the "Honey Sweet Tyranny" 'roo sauce... | | Shredhead | Posted - 21 Jul 2007 : 02:10:00
quote:
That's okay, keep 'em comin'. Sometimes the rabbit trails lead to some nice rabbits...lol!
quote:
Is the "Honey Sweet Tyranny" or is it "Sweet Tyranny BBQ Sauce"?
I'll fire up the grill  | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 20 Jul 2007 : 23:26:14
There should be a coffee rinse rule though... | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 20 Jul 2007 : 23:24:59
I didn't know that there were laws about motions involved in eating Fig Newtons... much less that they were plagerized... | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 20 Jul 2007 : 20:28:17
Well, I just have one real pressing question:
Is the "Honey Sweet Tyranny" or is it "Sweet Tyranny BBQ Sauce"? | | Shredhead | Posted - 20 Jul 2007 : 06:03:52
quote:
Allow me to say that all of the contributions thus far have been very enlightening and well thought out. But, while I agree with everyone (for the most part) I feel it necesary to steer the conversation back into the realm of which I originally intended. I don't mind rabbit-trails, but after 3 pages, perhaps a little refocus is in order.
I'm comfortable with that lol .
quote:
Those who feel that they benefit from a tyrant's rule do not necessarily consider his rule to be tyranny.
I agree , before we can say that one is comfortable with tyranny , we would have to be certain one sees the tyranny . This is our fight , as I see it . Capn B likened sin & the tyranny thereof to an Oreo , I would go a little further & liken it to heroin , highly addictive , short term pleasure with long term consequences , & getting free of it , is often an incredible battle .
The worldy mind , like the world , seems to be fixed on the temporal , not the eternal . Lets not forget how the Israelites wanted to go back to Egypt .
| | Captain Blasto | Posted - 20 Jul 2007 : 02:20:51
quote:
Thus, they are comfortable with the "tyranny" of the "mud pie." The mud pie has no nutritional value, it cannot satisfy, nor does it taste particularly good.
I think that as it pertains to "sin" at least part of this analogy may not "seem" to ring quite as true... in that sinfulness could be likened to an oreo cookie while righteousness to spinich... Sin can seem sweet to the palate but yet it "has no nutritional value", it cannot sustain or nourish and it is actually bad for you... | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 22:44:16
quote:
Forgive my temporary diversion onto the rabbit trail, but there is a point needing to be expounded upon
That's okay, keep 'em comin'. Sometimes the rabbit trails lead to some nice rabbits...lol! | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 22:41:08
quote:
Let me just add that it is most likely a lethal combination of all of the afore-mentioned enabling factors (self-gratification, noncommittal laziness and fear of the unknown) that result in people remaining in bondage.
quote:
Back to the subject of "sweet tyranny", human nature seems to follow Newton's plagiarized first law of motion - change, no matter how beneficial or necessary, is often viewed in the same ilk as chemo-treatments.
This is where I was going. Change is almost always hard to accept, and being changed by having Christ formed in us is no different. This is one reasom why I think that it was no accident that Jesus referred to the process of salvation as being Born Again. The process of life itself is, in it's very nature, consistent and constant change. And these processes can be, at times, traumatic and/or drastic. I think that our walk with Christ can reflect these attributes as well. | | herbhalstead | Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 20:13:56
Forgive my temporary diversion onto the rabbit trail, but there is a point needing to be expounded upon - one that I was alluding to, but failed to adequately bring to light - that there can be and often is a distinction between what Christ is/was called to do, and what we are called to do. Christ's words concerning His bringing of the sword, whether applied appropriately or not, is not necessarily Word for us. His mission to turn the religious world on its end, ought not to be unjustifiably extended to be license for us to exact political justice in the name of religion. Again, I refer to the Holy Spirit's leading.
Back to the subject of "sweet tyranny", human nature seems to follow Newton's plagiarized first law of motion - change, no matter how beneficial or necessary, is often viewed in the same ilk as chemo-treatments. | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 18:09:47
Let me just add that it is most likely a lethal combination of all of the afore-mentioned enabling factors (self-gratification, noncommittal laziness and fear of the unknown) that result in people remaining in bondage. There is one other possibility... that they choose to submit for submissions' sake. I believe that war type situations in scripture have always implied that God was either with or allowed a power to prevail or caused them to be defeated as He saw fit. | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 17:49:07
Umm... Tyranny is kind of a "subjective" concept... n'est pas? (pun intended)
Those who feel that they benefit from a tyrant's rule do not necessarily consider his rule to be tyranny. Tyrants always have those that agree with or "are comfortable with" their policies. Otherwise if everyone hated them (soldiers etc. included) they would not be in power for very long. So then it would seem that people who are empowered to throw off such chains who continue to choose not to... either enjoy the short term "percieved" gains of the tyrants rule for selfish pleasures sake, suffer from just plain laziness or unwillingness to strive for independence or they (in ignorance) fear their very independence itself from he who has no real power over them other than that which they allow. In any of these situations they will continue in their bondage. To the fool freedom could equate to doing whatever you please or whatever pleases you but wisdom dictates that in proper handling of freedom we understand it's scope while recognizing the long term implications of it's exercise as well as the necessity of it's equal distribution and therfore respectful limitations.
Whew... | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 16:44:15
Allow me to say that all of the contributions thus far have been very enlightening and well thought out. But, while I agree with everyone (for the most part) I feel it necesary to steer the conversation back into the realm of which I originally intended. I don't mind rabbit-trails, but after 3 pages, perhaps a little refocus is in order. In my original article I wrote;
quote:
I believe that people are comfortable with tyranny. Whether it is the tyranny of a dictator, or the tyranny of sin, there comes a point in everyone's lives where we have to decide whether or not we are willing to live with tyranny. The people who want to keep the "mud pie" are simply comfortable with the mud pie. The mud pie is what they've always had, and they are afraid that they will either like the "real pie", or have to give up what they've always known. Thus, they are comfortable with the "tyranny" of the "mud pie." The mud pie has no nutritional value, it cannot satisfy, nor does it taste particularly good. It may even make you sick. But you're comfortable with it, and thus you won't give it up.
I used the political examples to help us visualize the problem that I see. If we could, I would like everyone's thoughts on the "comfort with tyranny" thesis. Bear in mind, I am not chastizing anyone for what they have said, especially since I have joined in the chorus. It has all been wonderful. However, I would like a little more analysis of the "comfort with tyranny" idea I tried to explore. | | Captain Blasto | Posted - 19 Jul 2007 : 02:37:28
Ultimately vengence belongs to the Lord. It is by His permissive will that we are covered when reacting to injustice. While Jesus came to bring/make peace between God and men He does plainly state that He did not come in His mortal form to bring His kingdom of peace among men. That is for a future date when He reigns on Earth in His Millenial Kingdom. When we are justified in defending injustice it is certainly only according to His grace and mercy. I understand as well that in colonial times there was a greater fear, awareness and understanding of God among men than exists today. | | herbhalstead | Posted - 18 Jul 2007 : 23:27:17
Personally, I think any time we rush to extremes we get just that - extremism. Sure the Bible says that Jesus came with a sword, but it also says that He is the Bringer of Peace (John 14:27). The fact is that God presents to us many paradoxical situations - of each Person of the Triune Godhead. Sometimes He is the God of Peace, sometimes He is the God of the Sword. Sometimes He is the God of Mercy, sometimes the God of Justice, sometimes the God of Destruction (kherem). He is both-and in many situations. The key is to allow the Holy Spirit to help us discern which approach is necessary for a given situation. This is not at all a situational-ethics statement. It is rather the reality of how God uses us in a fallen world that both makes sense and also makes no sense at all. Sometimes we are indeed called to stand fast and boldly go forth - other times we are called to wait. Neither approach is wrong until it becomes motivated by ones own gumption rather than that of the Holy Spirit (1 Samuel 13).
Respectfully submitted. | | AXEMAN2415 | Posted - 16 Jul 2007 : 09:49:06
quote:
But that's my two cents.
But it was worth a million dollars..... | | Shredhead | Posted - 16 Jul 2007 : 06:51:25
Well said , & answered all my questions in one post , thanks . |
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